Talk:Judge Hillwood
The judge is the same person that got Vito in jail?--Chiquito 18:18, September 27, 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure, you don't see his face, its possible. The Tom 18:36, September 27, 2010 (UTC) I think that in the original Mafia, there was a mission to kill the judge Hillwood but the house was not completed in time for the game and changed the mission in Jimmy's Vendetta. I have a theory. The judge is the Consigliere of Vinci originally exist in the game but just appears in a cutscene. In these pictures you can see. In the photo, appears between Falcone and Vinci in The Commission Appears in an image of the car theft missions. And the model exists within the game with the name "consigliere" In this video you can see that the model is the gameplay. It could be the character say or also bears some resemblance to Sal Gravina--User:Chiquito de la calza 04:53, November 16, 2010 (UTC) There was probably a mission involving the mansion but the judge could not of been Vinci's consigliere as Leo Galante was and Hillwood isn't italian so he couldn't of even been in the mafia. He's not in the top picture that model is just a guy you steal cars for in the Betrayal of Jimmy. [[User:The Tom|'Tom']] (Talk) 07:50, November 16, 2010 (UTC) If you are in the photo. It's the kind that is between Falcone and Leo. Is safe. Watch the video again at the end of Balls and Beans. Also, I know because I got the same model that video files. The character is not in the streets. Sure, it would cut some alternate ending of the game or something --User:Chiquito de la calza 13:57, November 16, 2010 (UTC) Guys, I have my own theory. I believe that Judge Hillwood is the one who ambushed the drug deal in Chapter 12. Why do you think that, you may ask. Well, first of all, the fake cops had managed to procure a large number of police uniforms. Judge Hillwood would have managed to procure such a large number of police uniforms because he is a well-connected Judge and has control over Empire Bay's police force. Furthermore, Wong told Vito and Joe that Henry passed on information to one of the federal agencies. Since Hillwood is a corrupt political official and because he controls most of Empire Bay's criminal underworld and has all the courts under his thumb, it makes sense that he would have corrupt contacts in every government agency, and so because he finds out about the drug deal, he sends some men to ambush Vito, Joe and Henry. None of the other gangs would attempt this. The Clemente's are pretty much non-existent at this point since Luca and Alberto were both killed, and Henry leaving them pretty much suggests that it is a dying organisation. The Vinci's are much too weak to attempt such a large-scale attack, and I doubt that Falcone had anything to do with it, since he asked later for his cut. Furthermore, the men who ambushed the trio were not of Italian descent, so I doubt that either Vinci or Clemente would attempt to use them, since the Mafia wouldn't really trust them because of their ethnicity. Furthermore, because of their ethnicity, none of the other gangs would use them, and even if they did, they are too small-time to attempt something like this. The Triads are obviously out of the picture, because they wouldn't try to conduct a raid on their own place and they probably wouldn't want to attract heat from the authorities. Since Judge Hillwood has such a large influence on Empire Bay's criminal underworld, it seems plausible that he would be able to gather such a large army of criminals to assist him. SlayerDarth 20:40, February 17, 2012 (GMT} :The guys who ambushed Joe, Vito and Henry were Italians, they are a mixture of the models used for all three Empire Bay families. I just wanted to mention that before I ruin the rest of your theory, the Jimmy DLC's are not canon with Mafia II, it's a nice theory though. Tom Talk 01:05, February 18, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, but the fake cop who greets them doesn't sound Italian. Plus, none of them really look like models for the Empire Bay families. And even if they are, the Clemente's are pretty much non-existent at this point in time and the Vinci's are too weak to attempt such a large-scale attack. Furthermore, at the end of Chapter 13, Vito says that if the Tongs realise that they work for Falcone, then that will spark a war. Therefore, why would either Vinci or Falcone raid one of the Triad fronts? The Vinci's are too weak to start a war, and Falcone wouldn't want to start a war either. Additionally, the Triad member you follow into Wong's office at the warehouse looks like the guy that Jimmy executes in the introductory cutscene in the Betrayal of Jimmy, so Jimmy's DLCs might be canon with Mafia II to a certain extent. Hillwood's mansion is actually Vinci's mansion, and Sal Gravina's home in Highbrook was Leo's, so it's possible that after the events in Mafia II, both of them sold their homes because of the aftermath of Carlo's death or something like that. It's probable that this was Judge Hillwood's doing, that he was the one responsible for ambushing Joe, Vito and Henry. SlayerDarth|SlayerDarth 16:24, February 18, 2012 (GMT) The man who greets them is a Falcone character model, the rest of them are other gangster character models from the 3 Empire Bay families. The Jimmy DLC's are not canon, I said it before they share a city and character models but thats it, the stories are not connected at all, the events of Mafia II are in no way connected to the events of the Jimmy DLC's. Tom Talk 00:33, February 19, 2012 (UTC) Yes, but that would technically be implausible though: Clemente is pretty much defunct by this point in time, the Vinci family is too weak to conduct such a large-scale attack, and the Falcone's would not have known about this. Wong even said that the Triads had problems with the Falcone's from the start, so why would Falcone send his men down there? Also, how would Falcone have known about Vito, Henry and Joe being there? Even if the models from the three Empire Bay families are there, it does not necessarily mean that the fake cops are from the three Empire Bay families. Anyways, it wouldn't even be plausible, in light of the tensions between the Empire Bay families. The Falcone and Clemente crime families were rivals, so why were they working together? Also, the Falcone's and the Vinci's had an uneasy relationship, so why would they be working together as well? Therefore, they cannot be Italian as the plausibility of your idea of them being Italian is zero. SlayerDarth|SlayerDarth 18:09, February 19, 2012 (GMT) :I never said the three families were working together, I am simply saying that it is very likely that they are Italian as every character model used for them is an Italian gangster model, the same models used for members of the 3 families. :It could of been Falcone though, he could of arranged the ambush as he didn't get along with the Triads and as punishment for Vito, Henry and Joe, he may not of wanted them dead which could be why he used fake cops to try and take the drugs peacefully, the whole attempting to kill Vito, Henry and Joe was obviously not plan A. Also the Vinci family were very powerful at this point in the game and with Leo, the reasonable man in the family gone, Frank could or arranged this to get rid of the drugs. :Who was behind it wasn't made clear but it could of been either of the Vinci and Falcone families. It could of even been an attempt by the remains of the Clemente family to get back a bit of power. It could of been anybody and it is more than likely that the men who ambushed Vito, Henry and Joe are Italian as Italian mobster character models were used for all of them. Tom Talk 00:18, February 20, 2012 (UTC) The Vinci's were not that powerful. The Vinci-Moretti war resulted in the Vinci family losing most of their territories to the Clemente family. Furthermore, Leo had run away to Lost Heaven, so Vinci probably wouldn't have tried to do something like this. Perhaps it wasn't Hillwood, but it certainly wasn't the Vinci family, because they could not risk the possibility of a war. SlayerDarth 22:1, February 20, 2012 (GMT) :You need to do some research on the Vinci family, while they did lose some influence due to the war they remained powerful due to there control over the docks as well as various neighbourhoods and lucrative businesses, the Clemente's were the weakest and least respected as they swooped in an took over a few businesses after the war, not most of them. The game is 20 years later, the Vinci's would of been able to build itself up again by then and at the time of the game they are very powerful, they run the docks, some good neighbourhoods and control the politicians and governmet officials. Originally the Clemente's were going to be the most powerful family and the Vinci's the least powerful but by the game's release that idea was scrapped, due to this been mentioned a lot pre-release many people still believe that but it is made very clear that that is no longer the case in game and in the more recent stuff. :It definitely wasn't Hillwood. I think Falcone is the most likely culprit, he seems like the kind of guy who'd plan this. Vinci could of easily heard about this from a contact and decided to try and confiscate the drugs, though this seems less likely. Also we shouldn't rule out Bruno, he's a hard guy to trust and he seemed to know what was going on, maybe he screwed them. It isn't made clear in game so you can perceive it however you like but it definitely wasn't Hillwood and the attackers all had Italian mobster character models. Tom Talk 00:04, February 21, 2012 (UTC) Actually, yeah, the Bruno thing seems more likely. The fact that Vito's own mother refused to reveal the identity of Bruno to Frankie implies that Bruno is very bad. Furthermore, Bruno even handles money for out-of-town mob bosses with seats on the commission, so he does have a lot of power and influence. It could have been the Clemente family as you pointed out, or it might even have been Bruno acting under orders from one of the out-of-town mob bosses. It does explain the hordes of gangsters used. And if Bruno is trusted by the commission to handle their money, then maybe he is in the knowhow regarding the everyday happenings in their respective families. He could easily have picked up something regarding their deal. I also think that Bruno's line from Exodus is pretty significant. Perhaps it implies that Bruno discovered or knew of Henry's status as an informant, so he might have ambushed them so that Henry couldn't implicate Bruno for his activities. That, or Bruno might have believed that Henry was going to betray him, so he ambushed Henry, Vito and Joe so that he could receive the heroin for himself. However, I think that Bruno might also have realised that Vito was the son of Mr. Scaletta, so he tried to have him killed so that Vito did not avenge his father's death later on (Derek had him killed and was subsequently murdered, yet Bruno sort of brought hardship upon the Scaletta family). SlayerDarth 12:48, March 31, 2012 (GMT)